January 31, 2023

Transcript

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

Now, whether it’s guiding our families or inspiring work colleagues, a lot of us strive to be great leaders, but being a role model doesn’t come naturally to everyone.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

(Singing) So a groundbreaking new book has placed some of the world’s most high profile people, impressive people under a microscope, aiming to create a Bible for modern leadership. Its author, Dr. Kirstin Ferguson, joins us now. Good morning to you.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Good morning.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

Hi, Kirstin.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

Congrats! This is flying off the shelf. It’s already sold out in Melbourne. Your daughter has reported this morning.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

She sure has.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

Number one on Booktopia.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Happy to hear it. Yeah, so I think there’s this urge now to rethink what is a leader, because for so many years we’ve been told it’s really our senior men with fancy titles in the corner office, but that’s not what modern leadership’s about.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

Could you also, I mean, when we were talking to you in the outbreak, you also come from a military background to start out with, which would’ve had a real top-down authoritarian approach. But this is bucking those trends in a lot of ways.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Yeah. Often that’s the perception about military leaders is that it’s like in the movies when you see Platoon or something.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

I’m thinking Clint Eastwood.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Yeah, it wasn’t exactly like that. And in fact, you learn very early that you need to earn the respect and trust of those that you lead because they’re not going to follow you into risking their lives unless they trust you.

But this book is really about every leader. So a reminder that parents at home, people who have often volunteered in their communities, whatever it is they’re doing, they’re still leading. And I was inspired and I start the book with a story of a grocery worker during the pandemic who was no older than sort of 19 or 20, having to deal with a really difficult customer, but she did it with grace and professionalism, and she led in that moment and she had no staff and no responsibilities. And so she was a leader.

It doesn’t mean to say everyone’s the boss, obviously that would be chaos. But in that moment, she was leading. And I think what we’re really seeking from our leaders now is leaders who can lead with their head and their heart.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

Tell us about that. That’s the focus, this idea of a head and heart leader. What does that mean?

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

It means you can balance all of those technical skills that we get rewarded for at school and at university and in our jobs and promotions, but with also leading with your heart, which is putting people first and being humble and self-aware of the impact that you’re having on others, being courageous to speak up about things you don’t agree with, and also leading with empathy. And as we saw during the pandemic, being able to tap into those reserves of empathy as a leader is so incredibly helpful.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

Can you learn that or are you born with it?

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

I think some people may well be predisposed, but you can absolutely learn it and you can practice that skill. So I volunteer at Lifeline on the phones and you practice leading with empathy every single time you’re listening to people who are going through crises and dealing with so many struggles.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

What’s the biggest mistake then that people make when they think they’re being a leader?

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Okay, there’s two good ones. One, my family has coined mum’s disease. I am not sick. I have no disease, but I reckon this might resonate for you and some viewers where someone starts to say something and you just assume you know where that’s going. And even worse, you verbalize a solution. And so my children have coined that mum’s disease. That is a problem for leaders, not listening, not being curious.

The second is thinking you’re the smartest person in the room. Now we’ve all know those people, but we’ve probably all done it ourselves. And in fact, leaders build trust by not feeling they need to know everything, but in fact by asking other people what their opinions are. So that’s my biggest advice for leaders. You do not need to have an answer in everything.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

The most successful people in the world are the ones who surround themselves with people who are smarter than them. Right?

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Absolutely.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

That’s the point.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Absolutely.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

So what’s the big takeaway for people in here, do you think, for the average person who isn’t a CEO or a managing director?

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Which is most of the leaders that we know. So this book is really for everyone. And what I’ve tried to do is not only talk to leaders who are running major corporations, but talk to teachers, activists, community volunteers, students. So this book’s already going out to Year 12 students, and there’s one of the university colleges at Sydney University that’s looking at it for their first year students going through O week. It is a book for anyone who really wants to understand how to successfully navigate their workplace and life.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

I love this. It’s great. Congratulations on this, Kirstin. We can’t wait to see what happens next, but this is essential reading.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

Yeah.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

Get it now. Purchase Head & Heart, if you can find it, The Art of Modern Leadership or go to headheartleader.com. Is that right?

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Yeah. And you can measure your … it’s free, takes five minutes, measure your own head and heart leadership.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

Oh, I have a big head. I have big hats.

Interviewee – Kirstin Ferguson:

Headheartleader.com.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

But you’ve got the heart to match, so it’s all right.

Male interviewer – David Campbell:

I try. Thanks, Kirstin.

Female interviewer – Sylvia Jeffreys:

Thanks, Kirstin.

Link to original